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thejohncamp3ablog · 8 years ago

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Donna Dickens on the MCU vs DCEU debate

This article will focus on what is to come in the future and why I think DCEU will own it.

Now let’s start with MCU’s popularity, they were the first movie studio to share 2 or more separate movies in the same cinematic universe, specifically in the comic book genre successfully. Why do I say successfully, because we have had cinematic universes before as you might or might not know

- from Universal in 1931 with Dracula and other monsters;

- Daredevil (2003) and Elektra (2005) sure look like the first MCU attempt to me, released 2 years apart and both have Kevin Feige as producer and same cast in the titular characters. While I realize that he might have been added for color here, he might have tried this idea a long time ago and ended on his ass with both movies not doing good.

- All Quentin Tarantino movies are in the same universe apparently

Now in one way or another their popularity in the times of Phase 1 is part of the fact that some of the founding characters of the MCU have never been in live action films before (well they have but in 1978 Avengers TV movie, which was to say the least not even Batman and Robin level worthy, and Iron Man looked very much like an iron), and the thirst for that was big back in 2008, when the genre was already solidified by Batman Begins and the Dark Knight ruling the worldwide box-office. It was their time to shine, and they did.

I do understand the pure joy of a Marvel comic book fans seeing Iron Man, Thor, Captain America, Hulk unite together with Hawkeye and Black Widow in the Joss Whedon directed The Avengers in 2012. The idea was fresh, 5 solo movies for 4 characters that lead into an event movie, never before seen in this age. I am happy for those fans of comic books, they were also happy and they deserved it. This can’t be argued and twisted, it was a success.

In the years to come the conversation however turned from “We are happy for Marvel, to DC sucks!”, which is mostly pushed by bloggers and Youtube “stars”, and when I say stars I mean random failed actors, directors and failed writers. Now don’t get me wrong, some of them belong on some sort of geek related show on the tune and are doing a good job, but somehow they have become very confident in their business expertise in the hallways of Hollywood and are throwing scoops and opinions that turn to news headlines and when you repeat one lie a thousand times it eventually becomes truth to the masses that don’t fact check everything they read on the internet everyday related to Entertainment news.

Most of these type of nerdy Youtube shows are related to a website that writes for movies, games, entertainment in general and having in mind how many of them are now circulating, you can see how your daily Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, Tumblr news feed is full of the same “news” told in a different perspective or pushed to sounds much different than the actual fact.

Now why do I bother you with this, well because I have been seeing the same pattern in most of them, for the same type of event or release, like let’s say a re-shoot for a movie. We have the following examples:

SPIDER-MAN HOMECOMING GOES INTO SCHEDULED RE-SHOOTS!

WONDER WOMAN IN TROUBLE, GOES BACK FOR RE-SHOOTS TO ADD HUMOR AND LIGHT!

Rick Famuyiwa leaves the FLASH, movie stuck in development hell!

Edgar Wright leaves Ant-Man probably for the better because Kevin Feige is out lord and savior!

(I added a bit of drama on the last one, so you can get the point faster)

Now probably people that love MCU’s approach will blame this to Batman V Superman and Suicide Squad’s critical reception, but let’s be honest in the age of the millennials, I can’t say Rotten Tomatoes is the place I will check for a movie score and base my opinion on it. I see a lot of modern movies that are pretty much crap with 10 % better scores than classics from the 80s, 90s and early 2000s and movies made for retards with 90 % positive reviews.

(I am looking at you Ghostbusters 2016, YOU large piece of movie vomit that got away because it’s an all-female cast blah blah, the movie sucked end of story)

Now let’s slowly get the point, most of these Youtubers and bloggers discuss movies like its baseball or investments, which for many fans of cult cinema sounds a bit like Game of Franchises and Monopoly, not cinema art. I do agree with the fact that a Studio CEO is interested mostly in profits, but I am sure deep down they also want to leave a legacy of movies behind them. Cult movies, movies that transcend decades and are loved for years to come. So if we play along with the Youtuber’s modern logic and interpretation of movies being sports and mathematics and you are pushing the agenda that the DCEU is losing some sort of a game, let’s see the score board and try to understand why DC is losing, shall we.

First 5 MCU movies have grossed around the 2.3 Billion mark, the same as the first 3 DCEU films.

Coming up from DCEU is Wonder Woman and Justice League, two movies that got some negative headlines from the same old same old fake news outlets a year before they were even released in cinemas. Random example: Sasha Perl Raver with internal knowledge of Wonder Woman and that the movie is a mess, something that doesn’t really fit with the narrative of what people saw at Wonder Con 2017 and other more official outlets. Justice League is attacked just because it’s Zack Snyder, and Cyborg is apparently too CGI for Marvel fans and bloggers, the same who embraced so many Iron Man movies, Abomination (The Incredible Hulk), Hulk himself, Ultron and much more CGI characters. They are attacking something that is clearly 7 months away and in pre-production, which means visual FX are still being worked on.

Now based on these constant attacks, let’s see the worst case scenario - Wonder Woman and Justice League get the DCEU treatment. They get attacked by those who can’t do, (the internet critics) and end up with underwhelming scores on Rotten Tomatoes. In that scenario, if you believe it or not, as any movie with negative scores, opening weekends are affected hugely (see Ghost in the Shell). We had the same issue with the previous two DCEU instalments and they still made good business for DC money wise, especially in the after cinema life where they both performed great on Digital release (Suicide Squad has now added 63 Million from that alone, making it over 800 Million). In that scenario we are looking for a Wonder Woman box office around the 450 Million (worldwide) and 900 Million (worldwide) for Justice League. I say that because Justice league will not do worse than Batman V Superman, with a lighter narrative, a straight up story and brand new characters like Flash ,Aquaman, Cyborg, Mera and Gordon. I just don’t see those same BVS fans not returning for Justice League and doing repeat views. Wonder Woman on the other hand can rely on the same fans and comic book female fans that have been waiting for 70 + years for this movie, so worst case for her is 450 Million. I just don’t see how even bad reviews take her below that box office performance.

Now let’s discuss the better scenario, they get for the first time some realistic critic scores. That will mean that those critics will needs to exit their little Marvel centric lives and see the diversity, how a company is unafraid to put women and minorities front and center of a major franchise. Yes, Marvel have black lead movies we haven’t seen yet, yes they have a female lead movie coming as well and they do have black sidekicks in all of them, but neither Falcon, Black Widow, Scarlet Witch or War Machine have been the center of a movie or a story, have they?

If Wonder Woman and Justice League get good scores, I expect the following numbers in the box office, 750-850 Million for Wonder Woman and a 1.3-1.5 Billion for the Justice League. This will put the DCEU first 5 movies in a whopping 4.35 Billion to 4.65 Billion worldwide gross, which is about 2.3 Billion more than their counterparts from the MCU.

How is that TROUBLE? How is that failing? In a mathematical driven conversation, a sports driven conversation, which is what Screen Junkies, IGN, Nerdist, Collider Movie Talk, ComicbookCast, Views from the Cave and many other do all day/365.

They say it’s doing bad based on their personal opinion, not facts.

And just to be fair to MCU fans, I will add The Avengers as the MCU’s 6th movie which made 1.518 Billion and add it to their total gross of 3.8 Billion, now add the possible Aquaman take which I will put relatively low just to prove a point and make it an even 600 Million Worldwide (I bet with what I know it will make 750 Million). This will make a round number of 4.9 to 5.1 Billion for the first six DCEU movies. I don’t see losing here, I see hard first steps in making a shared universe, something Marvel can relate to with their underwhelming phase 1 in terms of Box Office success. They had the hearts of the critics, and DC have the hearts of their fans.

Personal opinion for what Marvel are releasing this year and in the future on their big screen, in terms of excitement on my behalf.

Spider-Man Homecoming, which might be a very popular movie for MCU fans, but all I see is the 6th Spider-Man movie, no risks are taken from what I saw in both trailers released, still in high school (in the comics he doesn’t stay a teen 99.9 % of the time), the scene where he encounters the bad guys dressed as Avengers looks like the scene with Andrew Garfield (brilliant actor) talking to the car thief in terms of approach and humor, the main bad guy (Vulture) reminds most audiences not of a brand new villain, but of a bad guy flying on some tech wings for the 4th time in 6 movies, weird teen moment in the high school cafeteria reminds me of Tobey’s scene from Spider-man (2002), so what is so brilliant and new here?

What has your “lord and savior” Kevin Feige done, that I haven’t seen before? He just inserted gently his best seller Iron Man to shift the focus on him as he does every time (ask Captain America), with Spidey wearing his suit, fighting villains more or less created by Stark(as explained by the trailers and quotes from Keaton) and I bet he has more than 4-5 scenes in there as well. I don’t see new here, I see the same old tired formula.

Avengers Infinity War, we have The Russo brothers coming from a great start with the Winter Soldier, to a generic Civil War (that neither matched the epic comic book story line, neither concluded a great solo trilogy for Captain America, no one died, the consequences were comparable to watching a Disney XD cartoon not a live action movie), and now IW and i need to believe that they will make a 3rd movie better than Winter Soldier?

A villain (Thanos) that has been sitting on a chair for 14 movies, looking like he is enjoying an episode of Friends. Yes, I know, the epic conclusion of the 18 movies they were building to, is here. Well this has been hyped so much, that if they don’t do something super epic (like kill some Avengers that mean something, or deliver a dark and well-rounded villain, or not be funny and put one liners every 3 seconds), they just might sink their own ship on this one. Since The Avengers, their movies featuring the entire case have been bringing in less money each time and I don’t see this as a win for them at all. I don’t know about you MCU fans!?

Captain America and Iron Man are the ones to die and make MCU fans care for their death.

Thor won’t be as impactful for MCU fans, Hawkeye, Widow, Vision, Witch, Falcon are all possible deaths. Hulk is hard to kill, but he isn’t solo movie material for them, so he can go too.

Point is, if they go light, funny, expected and as per the formula - they might blow it big time for not delivering on the huge HYPE built for 18 movies prior. If they kill their cash cows, life can get difficult for them.

Spider-Man might be off the MCU after their deal with SONY ends, and he is supposed to be a huge player in case the original line up is killed off before they re-boot. If SONY see that he is popular and they need him they might use the positive reactions and just use him for their own cinematic universe or want better conditions for the sharing rights. Dr. Strange on the other hand, as much as MCU fan boys are trying to push him as something great, made less than both BVS and SS (and they are considered bad movies critically, and he had a FRESH 90% score on RT) and hasn’t solidified his place as a leader yet.

Black Panther we haven’t seen yet, but he looks to not be as funny as his other colleagues in the MCU, not sure if this is Marvel material. Ant-Man I believe will be better than the first one they did, but will not be able to carry the Avengers franchise as Iron Man and Captain America did. Question is who will be the Chris Evans or the RDJR figure to carry the new Avengers once the old ones are dead or not coming back because of contracts being not re-signed? Would it be Captain Marvel, will they risk letting a woman sell their toys? Will they be embraced as the current ones?

With DCEU we have unexpected things left and right Nightwing, Batgirl, Black Adam, Shazam, Flash, Aquaman, Gotham City Sirens, Suicide Squad 2, Green Lantern Corps, Man of Steel 2, a new Batman, some might be PG 13, other R Rated, we do not know, and that is what is exciting.

I don’t want 5 solo movies followed by a Justice League, make 6-7 solo, villain, group movies before Justice League 2, I don’t care. Be original as you are now, with Marvel I know what I am getting - safe, kid friendly, light, over the top humor, bland visuals, bad music scores.

The future is more suited for DC than Marvel. In my opinion off course, in yours you might want to vote MCU and that is fine with me.

And to the weekly DCEU hate speeches by Jon Schnepp from Collider, no one has seen your movies dude, your IMDB average score is below 4 and you will never make a movie as good as Man of Steel. You can bash Geoff, Zack or Ben, but still they have more talent, knowledge and charisma than you will ever have.

if you don’t like the DCEU don’t include their movies in your HEROES or MOVIE TALK panels. When the cast of Power Rangers came to play their Movie Trivia Schmoedown, everyone on Collider was giving praise to that garbage movie in their reviews afterwards. How professional!

I guess you aren’t supportive of the movie getting 48% on Rotten Tomatoes in this case, are you giant nerd!

#DCEU MCU BATMAN WONDERWOMAN FLASH AQUAMAN CYBORG SUPERMAN JUSTICELEAGUE GREENARROW CAMPEA SCHNEPP

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solo-bolo-trollo · 8 years ago

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A COMPLETE LIST OF ALL THE FILMS I WATCHED IN 2016

1. About Schmidt (2002, dir. Alexander Payne)

2. The Accused (1988, dir. Jonathan Kaplan)

3. All The Way (2016, dir. Jay Roach)

4. The Alphabet (1968, dir. David Lynch)

5. Anomalisa (2015, dir. Charlie Kaufman & Duke Johnson)

6. Armageddon (1998, dir. Michael Bay)

7. Backdraft (1991, dir. Ron Howard)

8. Bamboozled (2000, dir. Spike Lee)

9. Battlefield Earth (2000, dir. Roger Christian)

10. Beverly Hills Cop (1984, dir. Martin Brest)

11. Bicycle Thieves (1948, dir. Vittorio de Sica)

12. The Big Short (2015, dir. Adam McKay)

13. The Blair Witch Project (1999, dir. Daniel Myrick and Eduardo Sánchez)

14. Bo Burnham: Make Happy (2016, dir. Bo Burnham & Christopher Storer)

15. Borat: Cultural Learnings of America For Make Benefit Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan (2006, dir. Larry Charles)

16. Bridge of Spies (2015, dir. Steven Spielberg)

17. Brooklyn (2015, dir. John Crowley)

18. Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969, dir. George Roy Hill)

19. Cabaret (1972, dir. Bob Fosse)

20. Carol (2015, dir. Todd Haynes)

21. Cave of Forgotten Dreams (2010, dir. Werner Herzog)

22. Chasing Amy (1997, dir. Kevin Smith)

23. Cinema Paradiso (1988, dir. Giuseppe Tornatore)

24. Clerks (1994, dir. Kevin Smith)

25. Clue (1985, dir. Jonathan Lynn)

26. Coffee and Cigarettes (2003, dir. Jim Jarmusch)

27. Confirmation (2016, dir. Rick Famuyiwa)

28. Cries and Whispers (1972, dir. Ingmar Bergman)

29. Crimson Peak (2015, dir. Guillermo del Toro)

30. Crumb (1994, dir. Terry Zwigoff)

31. The Danish Girl (2015, dir. Tom Hooper)

32. Days of Heaven (1978, dir. Terrence Malick)

33. Dazed and Confused (1993, dir. Richard Linklater)

34. The Decline of Western Civilization (1981, dir. Penelope Spheeris)

35. The Departed (2006, dir. Martin Scorsese)

36. Die Hard 2 (1990, dir. Renny Harlin)

37. Die Hard: With a Vengeance (1995, dir. John McTiernan)

38. The Discreet Charm of the Bourgeoisie (1972, dir. Luis Buñuel)

39. Don’t Think Twice (2016, dir. Mike Birbiglia)

40. Dr. No (1962, dir. Terence Young)

41. Dressed to Kill (1980, dir. Brian De Palma)

42. DumbLand (2002, dir. David Lynch)

43. The Earrings of Madame de… (1953, dir. Max Ophuls)

44. Evil Dead II (1987, dir. Sam Raimi)

45. eXistenZ (1999, dir. David Cronenberg)

46. Falling Down (1993, dir. Joel Schumacher)

47. Fantastic Voyage (1966, dir. Richard Fleischer)

48. Fatal Attraction (1987, dir. Adrian Lyne)

49. The Fisher King (1991, dir. Terry Gilliam)

50. Fishing with John (1992, dir. John Lurie)

51. Following (1998, dir. Christopher Nolan)

52. Four Rooms (1995, dir. Allison Anders, Alexandre Rockwell, Robert Rodriguez & Quentin Tarantino)

53. Freddy Got Fingered (2001, dir. Tom Green)

54. Freedom Riders (2011, dir. Stanley Nelson)

55. From Russia, with Love (1963, dir. Terence Young)

56. Ghostbusters (2016, dir. Paul Feig)

57. Goldfinger (1964, dir. Guy Hamilton)

58. The Good Dinosaur (2015, dir. Peter Sohn)

59. Goodfellas (1990, dir. Martin Scorsese)

60. The Graduate (1967, dir. Mike Nichols)

61. The Grandmother (1970, dir. David Lynch)

62. Grizzly Man (2005, dir. Werner Herzog)

63. Gummo (1997, dir. Harmony Korine)

64. Hail, Caesar! (2016, dir. Joel and Ethan Coen)

65. Halloween (1978, dir. John Carpenter)

66. The Hand That Rocks the Cradle (1992, dir. Curtis Hanson)

67. Hard Candy (2005, dir. David Slade)

68. A Hard Day’s Night (1964, dir. Richard Lester)

69. Hard Eight (1996, dir. Paul Thomas Anderson)

70. Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows: Part 2 (2011, dir. David Yates)

71. The Hateful Eight (2015, dir. Quentin Tarantino)

72. Heathers (1989, dir. Michael Lehmann)

73. Hell or High Water (2016, dir. David Mackenzie)

74. Hellraiser (1987, dir. Clive Barker)

75. High Tension (2003, dir. Alexandre Aja)

76. Hoop Dreams (1994, dir. Steve James)

77. House (1977, dir. Nobuhiko Obayashi)

78. Howards End (1992, dir. James Ivory)

79. Jesus Christ Superstar (1973, dir. Norman Jewison)

80. John Wick (2014, dir. David Leitch and Chad Stahelski)

81. The Killer (1989, dir. John Woo)

82. Kingsman: The Secret Service (2014, dir. Matthew Vaughn)

83. Kubo and the Two Strings (2016, dir. Travis Knight)

84. Labyrinth (1986, dir. Jim Henson)

85. The Ladykillers (2004, dir. Joel and Ethan Coen)

86. The Last Days of Disco (1998, dir. Whit Stillman)

87. The Last Waltz (1978, dir. Martin Scorsese)

88. The Lobster (2015, dir. Yorgos Lanthimos)

89. Love Actually (2003, dir. Richard Curtis)

90. Love and Friendship (2016, dir. Whit Stillman)

91. M*A*S*H* (1970, dir. Robert Altman)

92. Macbeth (1971, dir. Roman Polanski)

93. Mad Max (1979, dir. George Miller)

94. Mad Max: Fury Road (2015, dir. George Miller)

95. Malcolm X (1992, dir. Spike Lee)

96. Mallrats (1995, dir. Kevin Smith)

97. The Man with the Golden Gun (1974, dir. Guy Hamilton)

98. The Martian (2015, dir. Ridley Scott)

99. Michael Jackson’s Journey from Motown to Off the Wall (2016, dir. Spike Lee)

100. Midnight Special (2016, dir. Jeff Nichols)

101. Miller’s Crossing (1990, dir. Joel and Ethan Coen)

102. Mommie Dearest (1981, dir. Frank Perry)

103. Moonraker (1979, dir. Lewis Gilbert)

104. Naked Lunch (1991, dir. David Cronenberg)

105. Naqoyqatsi (2002, dir. Godfrey Reggio)

106. National Lampoon: Drunk Stoned Brilliant Dead (2015, dir. Douglas Tirola)

107. The Negotiator (1998, dir. F. Gary Gray)

108. Network (1976, dir. Sidney Lumet)

109. The NeverEnding Story (1984, dir. Wolfgang Petersen)

110. A Nightmare on Elm Street (1984, dir. Wes Craven)

111. Nosferatu the Vampyre (1979, dir. Werner Herzog)

112. One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest (1975, dir. Milos Forman)

113. Patton Oswalt: Talking for Clapping (2016)

114. Pee-Wee’s Big Holiday (2016, dir. John Lee)

115. Persona (1966, dir. Ingmar Bergman)

116. Primal Fear (1996, dir. Gregory Hoblit)

117. Purple Rain (1984, dir. Albert Magnoli)

118. The Remains of the Day (1993, dir. James Ivory)

119. The Revenant (2015, dir. Alejandro González Iñárritu)

120. Riki-Oh: The Story of Ricky (1991, dir. Lam Nai-choi)

121. The Rocky Horror Picture Show (1975, dir. Jim Sharman)

122. Room (2015, dir. Lenny Abrahamson)

123. Scarface (1983, dir. Brian De Palma)

124. Scream (1996, dir. Wes Craven)

125. Se7en (1995, dir. David Fincher)

126. Secret Honor (1984, dir. Robert Altman)

127. Sense and Sensibility (1995, dir. Ang Lee)

128. A Serious Man (2009, dir. Joel and Ethan Coen)

129. Showgirls (1995, dir. Paul Verhoeven)

130. Sicario (2015, dir. Denis Villeneuve)

131. Sing Street (2016, dir. John Carney)

132. Singles (1992, dir. Cameron Crowe)

133. Six Men Getting Sick (1966, dir. David Lynch)

134. Sleepwalk with Me (2012, dir. Mike Birbiglia)

135. Spotlight (2015, dir. Tom McCarthy)

136. Spy (2015, dir. Paul Feig)

137. Star Wars: Episode V – The Empire Strikes Back (1980, dir. Irvin Kershner)

138. Star Wars: Episode VI—Return of the Jedi (1983, dir. Richard Marquand)

139. Star Wars: Episode VII—The Force Awakens (2015, dir. J.J. Abrams)

140. Steve Jobs (2015, dir. Danny Boyle)

141. Straight Outta Compton (2015, dir. F. Gary Gray)

142. The Terminator (1984, dir. James Cameron)

143. The Thief and the Cobbler (1993, dir. Richard Williams)

144. The Thin Blue Line (1988, dir. Errol Morris)

145. The Thing (1982, dir. John Carpenter)

146. Thunderball (1965, dir. Terence Young)

147. Time Bandits (1981, dir. Terry Gilliam)

148. True Stories (1986, dir. David Byrne)

149. True Story (2015, dir. Rupert Goold)

150. Trumbo (2015, dir. Jay Roach)

151. Twin Peaks: Fire Walk with Me (1992, dir. David Lynch)

152. The Usual Suspects (1995, dir. Bryan Singer)

153. Vernon, Florida (1981, dir. Errol Morris)

154. A View to a Kill (1985, dir. John Glen)

155. Waking Life (2001, dir. Richard Linklater)

156. Wings of Desire (1987, dir. Wim Wenders)

157. The Witch (2016, dir. Robert Eggers)

158. World of Tomorrow (2015, dir. Don Hertzfeldt)

159. Zodiac (2007, dir. David Fincher)

#film

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